Joe Wreschnig ([info]piman) wrote,
@ 2006-03-02 02:08:00
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Entry tags:quod libet, rant

Gentoo developers are ricers. Idiot ricers.
Or, --fuck-upstream.

So after I mentioned #185 yesterday, which I thought was a dead ticket, I got an email from someone with that problem. Because they were trying Quod Libet 0.8.1 (over a year old) and 0.11 (almost a year old). Both of those are even pre-GStreamer. To put this into some context, that's a bug that happens when you upgrade from GTK+ 2.6 to GTK+ 2.8, which we caught even before the release of GTK+ 2.8. It makes QL basically useless, trying to edit any tags will crash it.

So I filed #124595 -- yes, not only did I get a Bugzilla account, but a Gentoo bugzilla account -- asking them to please remove Quod Libet, since no one was maintaining it, and it was just causing problems for me and users. My thought was, they remove it, users get it from our website, everyone has less support to handle, we all win. Oh no.

Closed as a duplicate of #101619, which is apparently where all the ebuilds are ending up. Awesome, why aren't these in the distribution yet? Are they going to go in? If not, this isn't a duplicate, it's still unmaintained.

Nevermind, wow. I hope they don't get into the distribution at this rate. Seriously, they have no idea what they're packaging. No, we need PyGTK 2.8, or you're going to see Debian bug #338117. No, you need GStreamer core 0.10.3 or you're going to see GNOME bug #330816. No, you can't mix and match gst-python 0.8 with GStreamer 0.10, that's just idiotic. Of course, if you'd been in contact with the people who wrote the software you're packaging, you'd know about our GStreamer 0.10 notes, where we outline all of the issues.

It doesn't do anyone a service to leave unmaintained software in a distribution. It creates more work for distribution maintainers, frustrates users who expect their distribution to not suck, and makes upstream deal with spurious bug reports. Get it right, or get it out.

Since I started writing this, I've gotten a reply. Apparently even though I didn't add the ebuild, don't maintain the ebuild, don't even use Gentoo, and I'm not demanding a fixed ebuild (just a removal of a broken package that has been broken for 6 months), it's my responsibility to fix this.

Update: It's now become a Kafkaesque situation, in which I cannot get them to do any of: Remove the software; update the official ebuilds; fix the broken unofficial ebuilds; or even contact the QL ML to learn how to properly package it.




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[info]azazello
2006-03-02 12:42 pm UTC (link)
Your confrontation with that Jakub Moc character got nicely escalated because you're both assholes when it comes to communicating with outsiders. That's nicely illustrated by your trollbait title of this post - yeah, go ahead and tell the users that they're all idiots because their distro has a shortage of developers and communication skills in them.

That said, lazy developers (or lack thereof) holding ebuilds hostage in bugzilla is a big problem. If you want to try something constructive, spam the media-sound herd until someone takes the package.

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[info]piman
2006-03-02 08:04 pm UTC (link)
You've got a point. I've fixed the title.

Your second paragraph is exactly the issue, though. I am upstream, I don't use Gentoo, to the extent the packagers are doing work it's supposed to be to help me and my users. I used proper communication channels the first time.

(Reply to this) (Parent)


[info]evan
2006-03-12 04:59 am UTC (link)
Just randomly surfing by. Gotta agree here. Could've been handled more diplomatically.

An alternative is to change QL to print out, upon startup, "GENTOO DETECTED; PLEASE SEE http://mysite/why-gentoo-is-broken.html; ABORTING". There's that guy who did that to Debian, as I recall. (You probably know more about it than I do. I think it was cdrecord?)

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[info]piman
2006-03-16 07:56 am UTC (link)
cdrecord is closer to "LINUX DETECTED, PLEASE USE SOLARIS." Its author has, over the past few weeks become a total joke on LKML (after having been one on debian-* for much longer). He finally went off to write his own OS free from the GPL.

You might be thinking of micq, where the author trojaned the program to stop working on Debian (for some days after the release, and not on the maintainer's system).

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[info]dandrake
2006-03-02 02:59 pm UTC (link)
No wonder you're so surly all the time.

You need a different, less frustrating hobby. :)

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[info]safiiru
2006-03-02 03:51 pm UTC (link)
When Joe gets into a hobby, he gets really into a hobby, and if there's a frustrating part to it, you'd better believe he'll find it.

(Reply to this) (Parent)


[info]paulaqiguz
2008-07-17 06:47 am UTC (link)
No wonder your love life isn't all it could be you often forget that amour is about the emotions. Instead, you concentrate on the restrictions, responsibilities and restraints that you think it entails, all of which are guaranteed to send you into a cold sweat.

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(Reply from suspended user)
"can i speak to your supervisor?"
[info]pyrop
2006-03-02 07:34 pm UTC (link)
I agree with Azazello. This is the point where you realise that the person you've been speaking to is clueless and you go speak to someone who actually knows something. (This Jakub Moc child seems to be some sort of bugzilla janitor: i don't think he even has any powers beyond that.) Go harass media-sound.

(Reply to this) (Thread)

Re: "can i speak to your supervisor?"
[info]piman
2006-03-02 07:42 pm UTC (link)
He's not just a bugzilla janitor, he's the "lead bug wrangler". So I'm not sure what he does, except apparently it's worthy of a title.

I just had a long conversation with a guy from media-sound (really, shouldn't they have been the ones to respond to the bug in the first place? Oh well....) and it was just as unproductive. After about half an hour of talking circles we got this far.

(MetalGOD) it's not my fault no one wants to maintain this piece
(piman) I realize that, which is why I'm not asking for a maintainer. I can't demand someone give up their time.
(piman) I'm asking that, since you can't find a maintainer, *please for the love of everything, remove the software, because it doesn't work*.
(MetalGOD) piman, sorry about this word but are being really an asshole with me
(MetalGOD) i'm going to commit a new version to portage
(MetalGOD) to fix all this mess
(MetalGOD) and you tell me you prefer it will be remove it ?
(MetalGOD) removed*
(piman) yes! Becuase as you said, you're still not going to maintain it.
(MetalGOD) i'm not
(MetalGOD) but maybe someone will
(piman) No one has stepped up *for a year already*.
(piman) I don't hold out hope for someone doing it tomorrow, or next month.
(MetalGOD) ok be happy
(MetalGOD) the latest version is in portage
(piman) I am speaking to you right now, calmly and rationally. I do not know how to make myself any more clear. I tried to explain to you know simply dumping in a new ebuild is not an acceptable solution. In return, you've called me an asshole, even though I haven't insulted you once.
(piman) And then, you went ahead and did it anyway.
(MetalGOD) piman, i've said sorry for it but you didn't respect us

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Re: "can i speak to your supervisor?"
[info]pyrop
2006-03-02 08:23 pm UTC (link)
Fine, glorified bugzilla janitor.

Man, this is frustrating just to watch.

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(Reply from suspended user)
Re: "can i speak to your supervisor?"
[info]safiiru
2006-03-02 09:38 pm UTC (link)
except apparently it's worthy of a title

I don't think "worthy" is the right word for any title containing "wrangler".

Maybe you should just accept that the Gentoo community does not care so much whether their software works, as long as it gives them that hardcore --fenable-racing-stripes feeling.

(Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)

Re: "can i speak to your supervisor?"
[info]piman
2006-03-02 10:07 pm UTC (link)
Unfortunately I'm the one getting bug reports about it when it breaks, not them.

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Re: "can i speak to your supervisor?"
[info]safiiru
2006-03-03 12:22 am UTC (link)
Perhaps an informative message on Quod Libet's bug submission form explaining how you are not responsible for the antics of every distribution would help? Or maybe that would be expecting too much of the majority of bug report submitters.

(Reply to this) (Parent)

Re: "can i speak to your supervisor?"
(Anonymous)
2006-03-26 06:19 pm UTC (link)
well, i wouldnt go insulting the whole gentoo community, as i use gentoo. the problem is a couple egotistical people who are allowed to submit ebuilds making life hell for the rest of us. upstream isnt the only ones who suffer, we have to fight them every once in a while too.

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(Reply from suspended user)

[info]kitten_faust
2006-03-03 04:55 pm UTC (link)
This is the most hilarious welcome-back present ever. Thanks! ♥

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[info]rusty42
2007-09-26 03:10 am UTC (link)
quoted: http://www.funroll-loops.info/

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